Microsoft makes last-gasp OOXML push

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"We didn't mean to pick a fight," O'Kelly said, saying that the OOXML report was one of three in a series on document-processing technologies. "I think too many people are confusing open standards with open source. And too many people think that what's bad for Microsoft is good for the industry."

Microsoft also used the opportunity to defend itself against accusations that the company "bought votes" in an attempt to have OOXML approved as an open standard.

Robertson said Microsoft has been on an evolutionary path to move to XML-based documents for about 10 years. Thus, OOXML was far more than a "knee-jerk response" to the success of ODF within various government departments around the globe.

Users and partners had demanded, Robertson said, that Microsoft make its new XML format transparent. It was the wish of the European Commission, he added, for Microsoft to hand over control of the specification to the community through a standardization process of its choice.

Addressing 3,255 critical comments
Microsoft chose the European standards body, the European Computer Manufacturers Association, or Ecma, Robertson said, because it has a "very high standing in the community." The 50-year-old organization has worked on standards for such technologies as CD-ROM and the C& programming language.

It is certainly not unusual to then take an Ecma-approved standard through to the ISO, Robertson said, noting that "Ecma takes 90 percent of its formats through to the ISO process."

It also isn't unusual, Robertson continued, for a standard that has already been approved by a respected body to go through ISO's "fast-track" process, which halves the amount of time national standards bodies have to assess its merits.

Jean Paoli, Microsoft's senior director of XML technologies and a member of the Ecma TC45 committee charged with administrating the OOXML standard, said that TC45 has a wide base of participants, including Intel and Apple and representatives from users such as BP, Barclays Capital, and the British Library.

Paoli said that the TC45 group has worked every day since the failed September vote to rectify the standard according to the 3,255 critical comments made by national standards bodies.

Once duplications were removed, there were only 1,000 unique comments, Paoli said, the majority being editorial mistakes (such as grammatical errors). The rest were bugs he attributed to Microsoft's legacy of attempting backward-compatibility.

"There are some things in the standard that were expressed simply because we needed to move legacy documents to XML," Paoli said.

"We are preparing the future, but also migrating binary documents. Anybody that works on Wall Street would want whatever is in an Excel spreadsheet in an XLX spreadsheet. We cannot just go and change the spreadsheet used by the financial community. We need to give them a migration path to this new world of XML. We're talking about billions of documents," Paoli said.

Paoli stated that the industry, to some degree, has voted already. Apple is including OOXML as an option in its Leopard operating system, as is Adobe in InDesign and Novell in Suse Open Office. Several Linux versions are only a few steps behind.

"It obviously works," Paoli said. "Apple, Novell, Turbolinux, and Google can all do it. For somebody like Apple to bake the format into their operating system natively--it says a lot."

Brett Winterford of ZDNet Australia reported from Sydney.

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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 27 comments (Page 1 of 2)
Lies, Damned Lies, and Microsoft.
by Penguinisto January 29, 2008 11:31 AM PST
[i]"The company cannot adopt ODF in its own Office suite, it said, because it cannot migrate the legacy of billions of documents in older Microsoft formats onto it."[/i] So, err, does someone want to explain the presence of an ODF plugin for MS Office, that Microsoft made in very short order, and gives away freely from their website? Re: [i]"...nor does it reflect the rich feature set of Office 2007."[/i] Translation: 'It doesn't contain the patent-laden and proprietary little bells and whistles that we jammed into Office 2007.' Re: [i]"I think too many people are confusing open standards with open source. And too many people think that what's bad for Microsoft is good for the industry."[/i] No, too many people know full well that open standards != open source, and that OOXML is a huge wad of patent traps and references to 'whatever MS Office does' as a 'standard'. [i]"Robertson said Microsoft has been on an evolutionary path to move to XML-based documents for about 10 years. Thus, OOXML was far more than a "knee-jerk response" to the success of ODF within various government departments around the globe."[/i] That would be news to the former CIO of Massachusetts' state government, whom MSFT basically bought a pink slip for. [i]"Paoli stated that the industry, to some degree, has voted already. Apple is including OOXML as an option in its Leopard operating system, as is Adobe in InDesign and Novell in Suse Open Office. Several Linux versions are only a few steps behind."[/i] It's called Futureproofing Against The Borg. We all already know that MSFT will jam it down the world's throat by dint of default. This says and means nothing concerning the technical (among other) weaknesses of OOXML which are still present. /P
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They Say: "Never Curse The Bridge That You Have To Cross"!
by Commander_Spock January 29, 2008 12:30 PM PST
... because when you are really in need of it to cross the "deep" river it may not be there. Since Lotus Notes 8.0 already supports "the OpenDocument Format (ODF), an ISO-approved open standard XML file format developed by a consortium led by IBM and Sun Microsystems" et al - It may very well be that "Microsoft's last-gasp OOXML push"? means/matters doodly-squat to some at this stage of the game. Guess the "Redmond Party Goers" had their "ISO" Dancing Shoes all destroyed last Rocking New year's Eve Ball. Huh. :-$ !
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Its a fomat silly...
by Goldie Simmons January 29, 2008 12:58 PM PST
ODF is a document format, by no stretch of the imagination does it "provide backward compatibility" as implied by the Microsoft representative. Think PDF, another published standard, does it provide backward compatibility for reading old Microsoft doc files? No, of course not, it's a format and as such can opened up in Adobe Reader, OpenOffice and numerous other applications. Organizations, particularly governmental ones, should standardize on published document formats for several reasons. Number one being that multiple applications can correctly read and write these documents allowing for wide range of pricing/support structures and competitive bidding in the market place. If they were to use a proprietary format, not only would they lock themselves in but also force third parties dealing with them to get themselves locked in too. Because of this, the vendor can charge ridiculous amounts for retail copies while potentially giving the government and super-large companies big discounts to discourage them from migrating. All this is why it's such a big deal for Microsoft and why everything they put out is be a moving target when it comes to being compatible or interoperable, including their MS-OOXML pseudo-standard. Read the ODF alliance's response to this Burton Group's report: http://www.odfalliance.org/resources/BurtonGroupResponseFinal.pdf
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"the legacy of billions of documents"
by rcrusoe January 29, 2008 1:58 PM PST
Is Microsoft referring to the same "legacy of billions of documents" that they wanted to block their users from accessing with their MS Office 2003 patch? That type of behavior is the very reason that a standard, like ODF, should not be controlled by any one company. MS has used file formats to lock in customers and, IMO, OOXML is just another attempt to do the same. http://www.news.com/Office-2003-update-blocks-older-file- formats/2100-1012_3-6224462.html
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Okay, Complaints Are Valid, but . . .
by regulator1956 January 29, 2008 2:20 PM PST
Since ODF can't support everything a user can save in Office 1997, Office 2000, Office XP, Office 2003 and Office 2007, what do you suggest? One thing is to inform the user that by saving in "name the standard" you will lose some formatting. Another would be for Microsoft to invest tens of man-years in adding to ODF, but then what happens if the standards group rejects MS' additions? I 100% believe that Microsoft is looking to continue product/format lock-in, but with 50%, 80% or ??% of the market, how do we combat the truth that ODF cannot currently fully support all the Office documents that people create and still need to edit?
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Too many commenters don't read/understand the issues
by ulric2 January 29, 2008 2:38 PM PST
> So, err, does someone want to explain the > presence of an ODF plugin for MS Office, The ODF plug-in was mentioned. It means you can EXPORT an MS Office to ODF, it's a lossy conversion. What Microsoft is talking about is using a format as the _native_ format, one that will not loose any of the data you have loaded from a .doc or by using features in Office which aren't part of the standard. "Supporting" import/export ODF is not the issue, it's already done. Why should Sun, IBM decide what can and what can't be saved in Office format. They don't have 100 million users like MS Office, they are in no position to dictate what apps should and should not save to disk. Why should the industry be held back by the lowest-common dominator of whatever is supported in Open Office. That's crazy anything-but-microsoft thinking. It's IBM's and Sun's way to make sure that Office can't get new features and breaks existing features that they can't clone so they can more easily move users onto Web apps, it's not for the benefit of the user. It's made to sell Sun and IBM web solutions and hardware. It's made to set the lowest-common-dominator as the standard. > MS has used file formats to lock in customers > and, IMO, OOXML is just another attempt to > do the same. No one is locked in .doc or excel, these can be loaded directly in Open Office and other application, and they can be converted into any other format. They are the most widely supported formats in the world. Almost no one supports ODF. The reason why corporation use Office is because everyone else is using it, and because it's a developement plateform for in-house solution. The format being or not an ISO standard is irrelevant to corporation. Your data is never lost when it's saved in Office format. If critics were really serious about this 'lock-in' issue, then all that would be necessary is opening up the MS Office format, not have them support _another_ file format instead. The dishonesty is from critics of OOXML, not from Microsoft. Forcing MS to support _another_ format is about limiting the features and growth in Office to whatever IBM/SUN and a committee dictates instead of what the users want.
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OH YEAH, MY FILE FORMAT
by suyts January 29, 2008 2:49 PM PST
CAN BEAT UP YOUR FILE FORMAT!!!!
Reply to this comment
Standards
by msbeal January 29, 2008 3:05 PM PST
Setting standards for some of the oldest legacy applications in the industry is a tall order. No single company should be hurt or be given a leg up. However, the 800 lb gorilla in the room is and always will be the largest software company on the planet, Microsoft. MS is 13 times larger than all the other software companies COMBINED! To deny MS reasonable accomodations on any standard is to deny millions upon millions of their users the main benefits of standards in the first place. So instead of these stupid knee jerk anti-MS digs how about we send these boys and girls back to the drawing board to find a workable standard where the maximum good of all is served. Otherwise, the incompatibility wars continue.
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Sure....
by Commander_Spock January 30, 2008 7:42 AM PST
... "The Microsoft alternative, O'Kelly said, scores points for its ability to incorporate custom schemas, its wider variety of table options and its spreadsheet formula language..." that all suffer from the "ERR" ACHILLES HEELS syndrome that hurts badly. :-\ !
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MS dishonesty
by Alton Moore January 30, 2008 7:58 AM PST
> Why should the industry be held back by the > lowest-common dominator of whatever is supported > in Open Office. That's crazy > anything-but-microsoft thinking. No, it is the desire to establish and adhere to open and technically correct standards. MS has proven time and time again that it is a sales-driven company. The quality -- or lack thereof -- of their software shows it. > The reason why corporation use Office is because > everyone else is using it, and because it's a > developement plateform for in-house solution. Can you say "circular reasoning"? > The format being or not an ISO standard is > irrelevant to corporation. Your data is never > lost when it's saved in Office format. Are you joking? Although the clueless will always be among us, some of us computer types take our jobs seriously and attempt to do the right things for our companies. > If critics were really serious about this > 'lock-in' issue, then all that would be > necessary is opening up the MS Office format, > not have them support _another_ file format > instead. MS Office format is junk. We don't want to use it. ODF would support its supposedly valuable "features" if they were any more than just window dressing and lock-in ploys.
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